Ranger - [3.24] 41 million DPS perma-flask Poisonous Concoction | Pathfinder - Forum

Fast, responsive, and tanky, Poisonous Concoction is not only one of the strongest starter builds, it's a flexible endgame powerhouse.

3.24 Updates

PoB's

NB: replace Cruelty Support with Awakened Vicious Projectiles if/when you can get the right colored sockets.

I thought it was dead, but it's not

With the loss of last league's Wildwood Ascendency, the previous league's gutting of PConc damage has been revealed. We are at less than half our usual damage i.e. the build is useable, but not worth the expense...

...or that would be the case if not for some help from Reddit and Twitch streamer Jungroan. There's a way to fix it. We're back in business.

Stay tuned.

UPDATE: New version PoB posted above. We hit DoT cap easily at max level. The eHP seems low, but the build feels tankier. I don't think PoB is reflecting the calculation of the effect of the boots correctly.

The reasons for the damage are the following new uniques. We lose some HP, but it feels as if we gain durability. Not sure what's happening, but it's good!

There is a version of this that uses a Replica Badge of the Brotherhood, giving us a number of Endurance Charges equal to our Frenzy Charges. That's a massive increase in physical damage reduction - the build's weak point. It might be a little less damage at max level, and definitely a few less HP which we can ill afford, but I'm still figuring it out.

Early thoughts and the new Bouncing gem

It turns out the new Poisonous Concoction of Bouncing gem is great, for several reasons. It *feels* better than the normal gem - snappier and more responsive. One of the small downsides of PConc was always the slight delay between when you threw and when the potions hit. The new bouncing mechanic reduces that significantly. The chained bounces are self-targeting, which also takes a lot of pressure off aiming, letting us shoot and run with more effect.

Damage-wise it seems very similar. On bosses I suspect it's better as the potions all hit in a much tighter area (they soft target the single mob - it's something to behold), guaranteeing a more consistent damage output. That, and it's very satisfying - the only real reason to play anything.

I hoped there might be an overall improvement in Health Potion consumption, and though it sometimes seems as if there is, other times it seems as if there isn't. I suspect it might actually be bugged, or it is mitigating and then increasing the cost at different times through a mechanic that isn't immediately obvious.

All in all, I'm sold, and intend to use it exclusively from now on. I'll know for sure once I get to the full build.

Meanwhile, the loss of Withering Step offers a silver lining. It means we can use Dash again without running into competing cooldowns. It's a big QoL addition. It does leave us fairly thin on sources of Wither application, though, making it really tough to get the maximum 15 stacks on mobs. I still have to solve that particular issue.

Also, thanks to my foray into another build at league start, I discovered a new ring that can be swapped out in maps for a small loss of Chaos Resistance and stats, in return for a big gain in recovery (massive life on kill), damage (100%), and attack and move speed (+25%) through Adrenaline. I highly recommend it:

Previous Preliminary Notes

It's hard to tell how the build will be affected by Necropolis changes yet. The bind to LMB removal is a damaging change, though, as it potentially removes Withering Step. We are already socket starved due to not wielding a weapon. As GGG are still working out the final form of the change, we'll have to wait and see exactly how bad it is.

Poisonous Concoction gets a Transfigured gem version this league.

Note: this is a recently updated version. Notice the increased cost (from 6 to 8 flask charges per throw, the reduction of the 30% increased damage to 15%, and the return of Wither on Hit).

TL;DR it's not looking as interesting as it was.

Palsteron's video attempted to give more possible information on the gem, but GGG have since nerfed it. It's likely not going to be that useful, and looks mechanically inferior to the standard gem.

HOWEVER! The new unique belt might just provide something interesting. It's basically a buffed Pathfinder ascendency in a belt, and could improve the build's QoL and counter the downside of the flask consumption nerf:

The opportunity cost could easily be too high, especially as our belt provides added damage, resists, and Aspect of the Cat. It will definitely require some creative reconfiguration to work. Once more information comes out and I can PoB things, I'll know more.

A final note that some tattoos will be added to the core game this league, and could be really useful - once we know what they are.

Quick Info

Gameplay Videos & Boss Kills

These are non-curated videos, and represent the average gameplay experience. I'm not mechanically focused, and rely on a build to do most of the work - it's an ARPG after all. Videos are Ultrawide unless otherwise specified (I am slowly creating 16:9 versions for mobile viewing).

3.20 T16 Alch and Go Grotto Ultrawide (16:9)

3.19 T16 Waste Pool

Drox, Baran, Veritania, Al-Hezmin

Sirus, Elder, Shaper, Uber Elder Ultrawide (16:9)

Delve

No-Video Kills

I Recommended the Haste version for general mapping, and it is the version I boss with as well. 250+ movement speed and a 4.5+ attack rate is just too good, even on bosses.

3.18

30+ million DPS Avatar of Slaughter version: https://pastebin.com/2FfAR13m
35+ million DPS Quartz Infusion bossing version: https://pastebin.com/rpipt9wp

Note: both versions work for everything in the game. They only differ slightly in their focus. All the gameplay videos were recorded using the Avatar of Slaughter version - which has a slightly faster/snappier feel. If you prefer, you can stick with the Avatar of Slaughter skill tree and simply swap out Inspired Learning for the Brutal Restraint, picking up an extra ~4.5 million single target DPS for bosses (this is what I do).

The boss version uses a very specific Brutal Restraint jewel that gives 4 x 20% Increased Damage with Poison mods instead of an Inspired Learning. I found the jewel using the following (amazing) 3rd party tool that has finally cracked the stupidly obscure Timeless Jewel code: https://github.com/KeshHere/POE-Timeless-Jewel-Finder. I recommend it.

Leveling Guide

This leveling guide goes up to the non-Frenzy version, and can be played for its own sake, or used as a fast, durable league starter. It can then be transitioned to the Frenzy version of the build, or another build altogether.

It contains full leveling trees with matching itemization and skill sets from actual gameplay. Don't forget to check the notes:

https://pobb.in/sVwLs6Nc_oVL

Overview

This build is a very good all-round performer that is strong from league start all the way through to endgame. It smashes maps, and is particularly effective for Delve and Heist due to high movement speed and the narrow layouts of those mechanics. It's also a good general bosser. Finally, the movespeed and defense makes Lab runs trivial.

League 3.18 was the first time I played PConc. I originally intended to use it to league start and then transition to Tornado Shot, but I liked it so much I stayed with it. The flask theme appeals to me, and it has a very snappy, responsive feel.

Due to the nature of the skill and the itemization, we get a range of nice defensive layers. As you can see from the videos, the damage is more than enough to deal with all the standard endgame bosses. Ubers are tougher, but still doable - they just rely a bit more on player skill.

Best of all, it's simple to play. There are only two or three necessary buttons - right click to throw potions, one for Plague Bearer, and you can trigger Vaal Grace, Vaal Molten Shell, and/or Vaal Haste if you choose. Flasks are on auto and take care of themselves.

It can do all map mods, though a couple are particularly annoying - low mana/life/ES regen can hurt our ES recovery and send us OOM (particularly with the recent skill nerf), and enemies stealing Frenzy charges on hit is really bad. The build still copes, but it's not fun. The good news is we are immune to all reflect.

The build is also really solid for mid-range delirium farming. However, intensely juiced maps (100% Delirium + all other map buffs) is probably out of reach. It can be done, but it's very tough, and I don't recommend it. If you are looking for a Delirium mapper beyond 60-80%, this is probably not the build for you.

You will need some level of game knowledge to make this version work. I provide a rough level by level walkthrough, and if you know enough to load up a build in Path of Building, I upload progression PoB's each league that you can follow, and take the launch start version of the build to endgame.

Build Breakdown

Methodology

The main idea behind this build is that the poison stacks applied by Poisonous Concoction are not hard limited (with one proviso, explained in "A Problem" below), so it benefits immensely from Increased Attack Speed, Area of Effect, and Increased Duration. The more poison stacks you can apply, the faster you can apply them, and the longer they last the more damage you do. A fast movement speed is also highly desirable.

With all of that in mind, Frenzy Charges fit the requirements perfectly, and the build provides as many charges as possible - and as many bonuses from Frenzy Charges as possible - while maintaining a decent level of defense.

For each single Frenzy Charge we get:

12% increased damage
32% increased evasion rating
10% increased attack speed
6% increased accuracy
5% Damage over Time Multiplier for Poison
9% increased movement speed
10% increased attack damage

No kidding. At endgame you can multiply all that by 10.

There are a few moving parts, which you can read about here:

Detailed Build Notes

Special Note:: Get the "#% Increased Duration of Ailments you inflict while Focused" mod on the helmet. There are several other possible mods, so ensure you search for this particular one.

1. You need 21 AoE radius, or preferably 22 (52%) to make certain all flasks hit single targets. You can read more about that here.

However, it's difficult to determine what is happening with flask overlap and AoE with PConc, because we are utilizing both GVS (which throws 4 + 1 flasks in parallel), and GMP (which throws 4 or 5 + 1 flasks in a fan configuration). From my own testing it seems that 10 flasks with ~22+ AoE is a sweet spot, and the closer your target is the better.

2. You also need to get some added Frenzy charge duration because of the reduced duration on the gloves and boots. The formula for how much you need to prevent the charges ever dropping is:

60% + (10 x #Frenzy Charges)%

That means you need 130% for 7 Frenzy charges (more for each additional charge), which is covered by +100% from Charge Mastery and 1 minor increased Frenzy duration node in the tree, plus at least one 10%+ increased Frenzy duration implicit on the rings. There are several other +20% duration minor nodes easily accessible if required. You may need to select at least one more until you can run an Unnatural Instinct jewel, which picks up a node for free, and freeing up a skill point.

2a. If you use corrupted Darkray Vector Dragonscale Boots with the +1 Endurance Charge corruption (recommended), you will need to carefully balance Increased Frenzy Charge Duration nodes to counteract the big Reduced Frenzy Charge Duration the boots have.

Bear in mind that Increased Skill Effect Duration on the Malevolence gem and some tree nodes (Damage Over Time Mastery for example) will increase the duration of the Aspect of the Cat cycle on your Farrul's Fur. The effect of that is to require more Frenzy Charge Duration to prevent the charges dropping. It took me ages to figure out what was happening with this. Benefit from my pain. You're welcome.

3. I'm double stacking Wither via the Alt Poisonous Concoction gem as well as Withering Step, because it's such a massive multiplier to our DPS and the more stacks on mobs the better. Using a totem setup is tedious (as well as consuming 3 sockets, for which the build is starved as we lack one full 6 link due to not wielding a weapon). Of course, a totem setup is always possible if you prefer.

4. Don't forget Herald of Agony (a huge damage boost). Despair on Hit on a ring is now not nearly as good as Temporal Chains on gloves - even despite recent nerfs.

5. Dash + Second Wind may seem a bit strange, as the cooldown conflicts with Withering Step. In practice (and you will get used to the timing), it is possible to use Dash toward the end of the cooldown. The build is fast enough on its own, but it's much better to have it than not. Shield Charge is too clunky for me, and feels horrible most of the time. However, it can replace Dash if preferred.

Cost

I generally spend around 100+ Divination Orbs to complete the build each league, though you can start playing it with much less investment than that.

Surprisingly, the final version doesn't benefit from a Mageblood belt because of our use of Unique flasks, so we skip the potential endgame cost. Using a Mageblood would actually result in a drop in power overall (though there may be a way to work one in that improves the build - I haven't found it necessary to try). But also, as we have permanent flask uptime anyway, we don't need it.

Playstyle

Poisonous Concoction is a projectile build, and so requires stopping regularly to throw the potions. As with other projectile builds, this necessitates a start/stop kind of gameplay that is often termed "stutter stepping". What that means is a fast move and fire and move again mechanic that is created by a left click/right click rhythm. It's easier than it sounds, and quickly becomes second nature. It's made more fluid by increased move and attack speed, of which this build has plenty.

There are a few other regular keypresses to activate Plague Bearer and some Vaal skills on cooldown, but it is not complex and that too just becomes part of the easy rotation. We make full use of all available skill slots after activating the auras, which then don't need to occupy skill slots, thereby freeing them up for Vaal skills.

Skill Loadout

This is my suggested loadout, but anything that works for you will be fine (the auras you see loaded here are the Vaal versions):

Permanent Flasks

One of the tricky things to get right is the balance of flask charge renewal. This matters most on bosses where you are not getting hit enough for the Flagellant's flask prefix to work effectively. Overflowing Chalice helps a lot, and pushing the quality on flasks to 26-28 via the Hillock enchant.

However, we can now achieve permanent flask uptime without relying on combat kills to refresh flask charges, thereby avoiding flasks dropping during boss fights.

How To Do It

Note: this is an end-of-build technique that requires you have enough skill points to take the relevant nodes, and have acquired most of the endgame gear.

1. Swap at least one Medium Cluster Jewel for one with the following Passive Skills:

2. Select the Increased Flask Effect Duration and Increased Flask Charges Gained nodes shown in the green circles:

3. Change all flask enchants to be Reused at the End of This Flask's Effect (except on Overflowing Chalice which remains Used When Charges Reach Full).

4. You must activate all flasks when entering a new area to begin the loop. If everything is as it should be, your flasks will never drop. If they ever do (due to map mods etc.) you may have to restart them.

Further Notes:

It can be tricky balancing Chaos resistance when making these changes, but it's still possible to get to max resist with well rolled rings.

There are also a lot of other Increased Flask Effect Duration nodes on the tree than the ones we use, but pathing to them immediately brings a big price in lost DPS. If you choose to go that route, it's worth considering investing enough in duration to run a Dying Sun flask, and picking up 3 more projectiles and accompanying AoE to compensate. Bear in mind you will need to find 50% total "Flasks applied to you have #% Increased Effect" in order to activate the flask's third extra projectile, which is not easy. It also further reduces your DPS, and necessitates a complete restructuring of the passive tree.

Majordans' build linked below has done both, though if you go that way you will probably have to also choose his itemization to make it all work.

Other Versions

It's important to say this is not my build, though I do think I've managed to push it a little further and in a slightly different direction than others have. I've looked at almost every version of it I could find, taken ideas from them, and made my own tweaks to suit my preferred playstyle. If you want to see those versions, simply do a search in YouTube, and watch for hours.

The other version on these forums (maydie13's Poisonous Concoction AutoFlaskFinder) is about as far as you can push things and is a proper build guide. But bear in mind the itemization is significantly more difficult.

There is also a really interesting version with full physical damage immunity that has been used to farm Ubers almost with impunity. You can see the (3.19) PoB here - and full credit to Majordans. 3.20 updated version here. Note that this version swaps a lot of damage and movement speed for tankiness. Other similar versions also exist, and it's always a trade-off between damage and survivability.

A Problem

GGG have a game breaking code issue with DoT's, and have implemented a "temporary" solution that effectively hard caps the amount of damage that poison builds can do. You can read about that in a Reddit post by the author of the other build here.

The TL;DR is that you can never do more than 35.7 million DoT DPS to a single target. This can be increased with Culling (and we do), but it means the hard DPS limit on this build is 41.5 million and change - unless some new tech is found to further increase it.

Further Improvements

I'm sure this build can be pushed further - and part of my reason for posting here is to see if others can do that! It has already been massively benefited by player input.

If you try this version of Poisonous Concoction, good luck, and if you find improvements please post them here (many thanks to those who already have)!

Last edited by t0lkien on Apr 15, 2024, 2:25:02 PM

Last bumped on Apr 16, 2024, 9:35:57 AM

Posted by
t0lkien
on Jun 25, 2022, 6:56:52 PM

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Ranger - [3.24] 41 million DPS perma-flask Poisonous Concoction | Pathfinder - Forum - Path of Exile (2024)